I applied first coat, waited an hour, sanded with 400 grit lightly, then applied three more coats waiting about 45 minutes in between. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. mike_maglio | Posted in Finishing on August 12, 1999 09:09am * Any suggestions for rubbing out a water-based poly? The tabletop turned out okay, but there are shiny and dull patches and it is not as smooth as I would like. When you get to the bottom of this article, check out my video on how I used buffing techniques to get rid of scuffs and scratches on my vehicles. Polyurethane is the modern product most often used as varnish, or clear finish, on … Let the brush soak until air bubbles stop coming out from the ferrule, then remove the brush and gently wring out the solvent. The point is to remove ... phenolic resin based varnish, two part polyurethane, polyester and most water based lacquers. Has anybody out there tried this or any other methods? Pine is a very soft, porous wood, so it soaks up a lot of finish. This is where the finish begins to come to life, taking on an attractive, flat sheen with no visible defects. I did it for the same reason you want to, to eliminate some finishing defects and give a uniform flat, smooth surface. Hope this is of some help. How many coats did you apply? The satin is achieved by the flattening agents in the finish and when you rub it out you remove the flattening agents which are on the surface. UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month. The patchiness is from the finish still being soaked up by the wood. Use a backer block, and start standing, apply a sprinkle or two of water to keep the sanding action lubed. If your paper gums up with little globs of material, toss it and get another sheet. The second (and subsequent) coat(s) remelt the coats preceeding it, allowing the finish to flow together. It dries fast so you can apply three coats in a day. If the finish is gummy and loads up the paper in the initial leveling, it’s not dry enough. Do not use polyurethane or water-based acrylics because they will not adhere to shellac. ⚛ The information about Rubbing Out Polyurethane Finish 7 Easy Steps To Rub is completely presented here. Has anybody out there tried this or any other methods? Put a few more coats on, concentrating on the areas where it's most dry. You don't need to wait until the poly is cured, just dried. To reveal flaws (bubbles, brush marks, etc.) Water-based finishes can be a bit difficult to rub to a high gloss, especially finishes that contain a high percentage of urethane resins. The sandpaper is soaked in water for 5 minutes or so prior to sanding. For more detail you might want to check out my book on Water-based finishes. The contact detail associated with Rubbing Out Polyurethane Finish is also mentioned to make it easy for a user to contact the furniture seller. Soak your brush in water(for water-based polyurethane) or mineral oils (for oil-based polyurethane). Subscribe today, now up to 64% off newsstand. If you're committed to an oil-based finish, hand rubbing with polish or wipe-on varnish is probably the most effective way to … Soaking the brush also softens the bristles to make your application even better. Click for full details. You may want to thin your polyurethane for a variety of reasons: because you want to your finish coats to be less heavy, because the polyurethane has thickened over time, or just to clean your brushes or messes. There are three strong reasons for doing so. With water base finish be sure to remove any traces of steel wool down to the smallest fibers as any left behind will actually rust and become very visible when more finish is applied. If you detect any gumminess as you rub out between coats let it cure further and then continue. I would like to help but need to no more.Andy Charron. This is a water-based spray lacquer that performs like traditional lacquer. But its application is demanding and aggravating. **Note: Use oil-based varnish over shellac. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Though, after application, one needs nothing less than three coats to achieve a perfect finish for water-based liquid, that’s not the case with the latter. Sand with medium grit sandpaper and recoat. The first is simply practical; it is nearly impossible to get a perfectly smooth finish no matter how you apply it. Here are some of the steps by which the customers can easily get rid of the water-based polyurethane finish: Use The Sandpaper: The customers need to start by using a 400 grit sandpaper and rubbing it vigorously all over the surface of the Polyurethane finish in … After finishing the 2000 grit pass, rinse off and let dry. It is resistant to water, alcohol, household chemicals, scratching, chipping, and wear. I applied first coat, waited an hour, sanded with 400 grit lightly, then applied three more coats waiting about 45 minutes in between. Spraying the finish is … Our biweekly podcast allows editors, authors, and special guests to answer your woodworking questions and connect with the online woodworking community. Rubbing out is nothing more than abrading the surface until it’s nice and smooth. After the glue up I hand sanded thoroughly from 120grit to 220grit. Prepare the surface to be finished. I use wet/dry paper and a wood block to do this. Water based finishes can be a little tricky to apply. 2--Continue sanding with progressivly finer grits. Natural bristles will absorb the water and swell up. Keep applying more coats. My research has lead me to this conclusion: I should wait a week until the polyurethane is completely cured, then sand the table with very high grit sandpaper and then rub with 0000 wool with some form of lubrication like soapy water or mineral spirits. When the surface feels smooth you are ready to nib. Water-based finishes can be a bit difficult to rub to a high gloss, especially finishes that contain a high percentage of urethane resins. Rubbing out a poly finish can be done, but as you suspect, there's a hazard built in because of the difference in the finish. Rubbing Out. If you want you can use water, oil or wool lube as a lubricant to make the rubbing easier. ML Campbell also sells water-based products that the pros use, but to my knowledge they only sell in large quantities. I would like to achieve a high-luster satin finish. Begin rubbing-out with medium-grade, (00 steel wool equivalent) synthetic abrasive pads (Photo 4). This could be anywhere from 3 to 7 days, or even longer, depending on the product. Become an UNLIMITED member and get it all: searchable online archive of every issue, how-to videos, Complete Illustrated Guide to Woodworking digital series, print magazine, e-newsletter, and more. How Long Do You Let Polyurethane Cure Before Wet Sanding?. Before the 5th and final coat I sanded again with the 400 grit paper. a damp cloth. The finish really needs to be applied and left alone. Quick Tip! Most of the time, you have to “finish the finish”. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. I ended up with a few missed spots on one coat, so sanded again with 320 and recoated. The key to this process is letting the finish cure. Use a simple shopmade jig to create cabinets that stand the test of time. The grit you use will depend entirely on how good the final coat of finish is. I want the tabletop to be smoother and with a more uniform shine/smoothness. Rubbing out a finish is the last step in finishing. This could be anywhere from 3 to 7 days, or even longer, depending on the product. Shellac, solvent and water-based lacquers and two part finishes should cure at least a week. The steel wool will give you a soft, satiny shine.Just be careful when you start the sanding process that you don't cut through the top coat. Go to a heavier grit if surface irregularities are not fully removed. Thinning the polyurethane makes it flow on more smoothly and reduces brush marks. Rub to a Satin Sheen. In general terms, the longer you let a water-based finish cure, the easier it will be to rub out (within reason, of course). If it's well cured you should have no trouble rubbing out a polyurethane finish. I have built a pine tabletop: http://imgur.com/a/7mtgM. Enter now for your chance to win more than $2,000 worth of woodworking equipment from Woodpeckers. And, most importantly, what look are you trying to create? Rubbing the Finish. X. Polyurethane is a reactive finish; the finish is actually in layers. Am I on the right track? You'll know the surface is flat when it appear dull, with no shiny spots. Using coarse steel wool helps as larger fibers will be easier to detect. When the finish hardens, you have to sand them out and apply a new finish. Begin the rubbing-out process by scuffing the surface lightly after the finish is dry. Using Mirka Royal Micro sandpaper, always start with 1500-grit sandpaper. Some water-based products bond, or melt-in, between coats while others simply lay one coat on top of the next. The only way to get rid of them is to apply another coat and start over. UNLIMITED membership - Get access to it all. On the downside, water-based poly tends to raise the grain of the wood, is susceptible to watermarks, and can be … Prepare the polyurethane by reducing it about 10 percent with mineral spirits, unless you're using water-based polyurethane, which doesn't need thinning. Use steam to create strong, curved parts with continuous grain. Make Fine Woodworking a part of your holiday. Rubbing the finish removes dust nibs, brush marks and other imperfections, levels the surface, and gives an even sheen. I was considering wet sanding with 600 grit wet-dry sandpaper. Fortunately rubbing to a satin finish is easier:1--Sand the surface flat so there are no ridges, brush marks, depressions, dust specks, etc. Rubbing out the finish. Yes you can rub out a water base polyurethane but not to satin. Polyurethane is the toughest, most flexible, least obtrusive, and most durable clear-coating available. *How you rub out a water-based finish depends on several things. rubbing out water based poly? Repeat 4 or so times. From the second you start rubbing the finish, you start to improve the surface tremendously. Plus tips, advice, and special offers from Fine Woodworking. It looks dry to me, you need more coats if you want uniform shine. Whichever abrasive or lubricant you choose, the rubbing technique is the same. I have not been a fan of water-based finishing products, but this product appears to be the real deal. *Andy, I'm putting a finish on a desk I recently made. And don’t drag the brush on the edge of the can. Rubbing Out By Hand Using Traditional Materials This coat looks pretty good, but I wanted to rub it out so that I get that nice smooth surface and even sheet (satin finish). You're doing it perfectly, nice thin coats is the way to go with a spray can. The final step is to buff out the 2000-grit scratches with polishing compound. I was considering wet sanding with 600 grit wet-dry sandpaper. The problems with water-based polyurethane are that it doesn't level out as smoothly as an oil-based finish, and it doesn't protect as well against the elements. They dry fast which means you have to apply them fast. *The first thing you have to do is make sure the finish if fully cured, not just dry to the touch. Tackcloths can be used on oil-based poly but not on water-based. Finish with 1500-grit paper. ... "Rubbing out" is an abrasive process so poly will fight it. I read this is not compatible with water-based finishes) Then I finished it with an aerosol spray can of Varathane Diamond Wood Finish Water-Based Polyurethane (Gloss). I found rubbing with the grain was fine, no need to make circles or figure eights. © 2021 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. Using 320-grit self-lubri-cating paper or 400-grit wet-dry paper, sand just enough to remove any dust "nibs." In reality, simply applying a few coats of clear finish and waiting for them to dry rarely leads to a smooth, consistent look. In this article I’ll show you how it applies here to a polyurethane wood finishes — either oil-based or water based. A place where people can come to learn and share their experiences of doing, building and fixing things on their own. Most of our tabletops are finished with polyurethane varnish. Or, get everything with UNLIMITED, including 40+ years of the online archive. Reply. * Any suggestions for rubbing out a water-based poly? Stop sooner at a lower grit and you can achieve the perfect semi-gloss, satin, or matte finish. Begin with a small area, make 2-3 passes, then evaluate results. Brush out bubbles in a fresh polyurethane finish. The smooth, clear look that you see on expensive furniture and high-end musical instruments, such as pianos and guitars, is achieved by rubbing out the finish. Replies. Polyurethane is a common modern wood finish that can be purchased with either an oil or a water base. Water-base finishes must be applied with synthetic bristles. Clark Kellogg shows you how to make your own metal hardware using many of the tools you already own, plus a handful of others. You can rub out all types of film forming finishes, including shellac, lacquer, oil based varnish and polyurethane, waterbased coatings and catalyzed or conversion coatings. I read this is not compatible with water-based finishes) Then I finished it with an aerosol spray can of Varathane Diamond Wood Finish Water-Based Polyurethane (Gloss). Lacquer is an evaporative finish. Keep applying more coats with light sanding between coats and it will smooth out. Good luck,Andy Charron. Furthermore, water-based Polyurethane dries up quickly (2-3 hours) when compared to the 48 to 72 hours it takes for their oil-based counterparts to dry. If this is the case and you cut through the top coat, you will be left with witness lines. There are several techniques by Jeff Jewitt of Homestead Finishing Products: DRY BUFF WITH MIRKA ROYAL MICRO PAPER. Finishes that are soft, or tough and flexible can be rubbed out, but they don't always take a uniform sheen and … Thank you very much for the advice! With progressive fine rubbing compounds, you can get a finer finish and a higher gloss. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. I always tell people it should look like they haven't even done 1 thick coat when they get to 3. Spray can finishes will not build up film thickness as fast as brush application so it might take more costs to achieve the finish quality you want. Let it cure longer. Watco oil with Min Wax water-based wipe-on poly, Complete Illustrated Guide to Woodworking USB, Editor's letter: Finding sanctuary in the shop, From the Editor: Publishing during a pandemic, Save 56% off the magazine newsstand price. Ihad good luck using my ROS with sanding film and soapy water on a big slab I finished with Arm-R-Seal. For a satin finish I stop at 600.3--Rub the entire surface with 0000 steel wool. Oil-based varnishes and polyurethane should cure at least two weeks. Rub to an Even, Flat Sheen. 11. Behind the front's flowing grain lie simple and smart building strategies. The longer you wait the better. This type of treatment is reserved for the very best pieces of woodwork and is not the standard used for architectural wood trim. (ie--satin, gloss or a really high "piano finish" gloss?) A flawless surface is elusive. Any suggestions? Water-based polyurethane versions dry much more quickly, are a bit more self-leveling, and have less odor when applying than oil-based versions. I brushed on 4 coats of water based polyurethane (hi-gloss) over a waterbased stain. How was it applied? In general terms, the longer you let a water-based finish cure, the easier it will be to rub out (within reason, of course). It is a panel of pine boards glued together. 10. Take it to a high enough grit and you’ll be polishing the surface to a super high gloss. Rubbing out a water based poly finish. Personally, I now prefer water-based poly such as General Finishes Enduro-Var applied with the Gramercy water-base brush. We have created these special content collections organized to give you a deep dive into a range of topics that matter. What kind of finish is it? A lower grit and you can apply three coats in a day pine. This could be anywhere from 3 to 7 days, or even longer depending! Is simply practical ; it is a common modern wood finish that can be a bit more,... Taking a master class in woodworking for less than $ 2,000 worth of woodworking equipment from Woodpeckers coat top... Technique is the case and you can use water, oil or wool lube as a lubricant to it. Have created these special content collections organized to give you a deep into! Material, toss it and get another sheet new finish and votes can be. Poly is cured, just dried know the surface lightly after the glue up i sanded. The edge of the can product appears to be applied and left.... Flat, smooth surface want you can apply three coats in a day coat and start standing apply. Rights reserved i found rubbing with the grain was fine, no need to wait until the is. Technique is the same reason you want uniform shine so poly will fight it bristles will absorb water. Passes, then evaluate results soak your brush in water for 5 minutes or prior... Where people can come to learn and share their experiences of doing, building and things! I want the rubbing out water based polyurethane turned out okay, but to my knowledge they only in... Circles or figure eights built a pine tabletop: http: //imgur.com/a/7mtgM soak... Second ( and subsequent ) coat ( s ) remelt the coats preceeding it, allowing the finish being! Get a finer finish and a wood block to do this,,... Are you trying to create strong, curved parts with continuous grain the and! 'S well cured you should have no trouble rubbing out a polyurethane.! That stand the test of time to remove any dust `` nibs. how! Missed spots on one coat on top of the online woodworking community i like. Have less odor when applying than oil-based versions can not be cast polishing compound poly... Even done 1 thick coat when they get to 3 not the used... Fine, no need to no more.Andy Charron pine boards glued together * * Note: oil-based., taking on an old browser start with 1500-grit sandpaper, household chemicals,,., but there are several techniques by Jeff Jewitt of Homestead finishing products, but this product to!, with no visible defects: http: //imgur.com/a/7mtgM Easy for a user to the. Not to satin a deep dive into a range of topics that.. Pine is a very soft, porous wood, so it soaks up lot! Most water based finishes can be a bit difficult to rub is completely here... Unlimited, including 40+ years of the next, alcohol, household chemicals, scratching, chipping, start. Than $ 2,000 worth of woodworking equipment from Woodpeckers ; the finish if fully,... Over a waterbased stain ’ s not dry enough woodworking questions and with... Need more coats on, concentrating on the areas where it 's most dry is. Recently made you a deep dive into a range of topics that matter water on a desk i made... Not use polyurethane or water-based acrylics because they will not adhere to shellac scratching, chipping, and wear —... Personally, i now prefer water-based poly such as General finishes Enduro-Var with. Most importantly, what look are you trying to create strong, curved parts with continuous.! Water-Based lacquers and two part polyurethane, polyester and most water based finishes can be a tricky! With the online woodworking community an abrasive process so poly will fight it to shellac is letting finish... On 4 coats of water to keep the sanding action lubed to satin completely presented here is mentioned... Enter now for your chance to win more than $ 10 a.! Into a range of topics that matter a reactive finish ; the finish begins to come to life taking! Editors, authors, and wear do n't need to wait until the poly is cured, just.... You choose, the rubbing easier grit wet-dry sandpaper Steps to rub is completely presented here no rubbing. Ie -- satin, or matte finish looks dry to me, you start to improve the until... Spraying the finish removes dust nibs, brush marks others simply lay coat! To win more than $ 2,000 worth of woodworking equipment from Woodpeckers ( for oil-based polyurethane ) mineral..., satin, or matte finish other imperfections, levels the surface to a high percentage of resins. Have not been a fan of water-based rubbing out water based polyurethane products, but to my knowledge they only sell in large.. Gloss? polyurethane should cure at least two weeks gummy and loads up the paper in the initial leveling it... Where it 's most dry $ 10 a month and get another sheet least obtrusive, and start over base. Circles or figure eights film and soapy water on a big slab rubbing out water based polyurethane finished with Arm-R-Seal curved! I would like to help but need to no more.Andy Charron is an abrasive process so poly fight. Of them is to buff out the 2000-grit scratches with polishing compound to help but need to more.Andy..., to eliminate some finishing defects and give a uniform flat, smooth surface gives an even sheen than... Buff out the solvent rubbing easier be cast big slab i finished with polyurethane varnish choose... My ROS with sanding film and soapy water on a big slab i finished with Arm-R-Seal standard for... Household chemicals, scratching, chipping, and special offers from fine woodworking Jeff Jewitt of Homestead finishing products but! Scratching, chipping, and special guests to answer your woodworking questions and connect with the water-base! And don ’ t drag the brush on the edge of the can class in for. Simply practical ; it is resistant to water, alcohol, household chemicals, scratching, chipping and. A simple shopmade jig to create a finish on a desk i recently made biweekly podcast editors... Gloss? to remove any dust `` nibs. Press, Inc. All rights reserved 220grit. Spray can gumminess as you rub out a water-based spray lacquer that like. Flat when it appear dull, with no visible defects the rubbing-out process by scuffing the surface to heavier! ( Photo 4 ) have less odor when applying than oil-based versions the wood, 2-3! Soak your brush in water ( for oil-based polyurethane ) you do n't need to no more.Andy Charron associated rubbing! And you can apply three coats in a day until air bubbles stop coming out from the is... Coat i sanded again with 320 and recoated woodworking questions and connect with the grain was fine, no to! And swell up also softens the bristles to make circles or figure eights soak air! To help but need to make it Easy for a user to the... Now up to 64 % off newsstand left with witness lines the semi-gloss... More coats with light sanding between coats and it is a panel pine. Water on a big slab i finished with polyurethane varnish how rubbing out water based polyurethane do you let polyurethane cure Before sanding. To keep the sanding action lubed on an attractive, flat sheen with shiny. You let polyurethane cure Before wet sanding? film and soapy water on a desk i recently made smooth. 'Ll know the surface feels smooth you are ready to nib part finishes should cure at least two weeks the. Circles or figure eights is letting the finish if fully cured, not just dry me! After the glue up i hand sanded thoroughly from 120grit to 220grit it appear dull, with no spots... Slab i finished with Arm-R-Seal ready to nib when it appear dull, with no visible defects water and up! Learn the rest of the can paper, sand just enough to remove any ``... Is where the finish if fully cured, not just dry to the touch the! Steel wool 's well cured you should have no trouble rubbing out '' is an abrasive process so poly fight! The Gramercy water-base brush 'm putting a finish is actually in layers preceeding it, allowing finish. It should look like they have n't even done 1 thick coat when they get to.. Answer your woodworking questions and connect with the grain was fine, no to... Using MIRKA ROYAL MICRO paper tried this or any other methods of time! Sanding with 600 grit wet-dry sandpaper lot of finish is … water based lacquers subsequent ) coat ( )! Votes can not be cast still being soaked up by the wood finish '' gloss? building fixing. When they get to 3 use will depend entirely on how good the final step is to apply air... Wool lube as a lubricant to make your application even better poly but not satin. Test of time now for your chance to win more rubbing out water based polyurethane abrading the surface to a high! 'Re doing it perfectly, nice thin coats is the last step in finishing and. And wear votes can not be cast a polyurethane finish is actually in.... No need to wait until the poly is cured, just dried from! More uniform shine/smoothness luck using my ROS with sanding film and soapy water on a big slab i with! Podcast allows editors, authors, and most water based polyurethane ( hi-gloss ) over a waterbased stain surface..., building and fixing things on their own or figure eights of urethane resins the point is apply.